The Whistle Blower Blog : Futsal Referees
Referees are only human.
We can be Fathers, Mothers, Brothers, Sisters, Uncles, Aunties, Sons or even Daughters.
We come in all shapes and sizes.
A lot of us are only kids.
Some of us are as young as 14 trying to earn a little pocket money.
Sometimes we referee games without a second referee.
Some of us are only new. We only learn by doing.
Sometimes we make mistakes. Even experienced Referees.
Sometimes we view the play from a different angle to a Coach or a spectator.
Sometimes our view is obstructed especially when there are 10 players on the court.
Sometimes we don’t see everything. No video referees in our sport.
Sometimes we look away for that split second.
Sometimes we have to interpret rules that are ambiguous.
Sometimes we get upset and take comments to heart.
After all, we are only human. Please give us a fair go.
-The Whistle Blower
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Dear Whistle Blower
Granted we are all human.
That being the case, how about we pay you according to the standards that you set !!!!
Looks like you will be doing this for free.
Yellow Ticket Ref
I used to get intimidated, scared even when I first refereed futsal games. The players often argued my decisions , spectators shouted abuse…..I had no mentors for “fatherly” advice so I turned to my best friend “Tiddles”. Tiddles had been our family pet for 3 years and we shared our love for each other. Tiddles made me feel better when I was down…….Tiddles didnt mind what decisions I made.
One night an obnoxious guy in the stands yelled abuse at me that was threatening and very rude. I was so frightened , up to a point……
…………That point was when Tiddles (my 80 kg Rottweiller) walked up to him and bit his dick off !
Please give us a fair go ?
referees, no excuses, if you want to enforce the rules you should know them, stop leaving it to coaches and players to tell you your job
Refs, trust your own decision and don’t make decisions based on the word of a 15yr old girl.
NB Breakers V Greater Western Syd Vikings referee’s were a disgrace, thank god there was an inspector at the game! Both referee’s had no idea what a foul was, slide tackles were allowed all of a sudden, no cards for last man tackles, keepers sliding outside there box 1 on 1, Even the winning teams were saying how ****** they were, you know you got a problem when that happens!
There are proper channels to lodge complaints about referees. Ranting anonymously is not one of them.
I can have an opinion as much as I want mseeto…Dont tell me what I can and cant do!
mseeto
these proper channels that you speak of, can you honestly tell me that they are taken seriously.
i believe not
If refereeing is so easy, how come so few people who complain about it have the guts to pick up the whistle themselves?
Is funny when you read about who or what makes a go ref.
I have reffed and I have coached and at the end of the day I refer back to the opening sentence in the rule book about what is or isn’t a foul….. “If in the opinion of the Referee……” at the end of the day it is their opinion and on occasions it differs with us ALL
@ toepoke
In the opinion of the referee only appears once in the FIFA laws of the game, “Indirect free kick for dangerous play, obstruction etc” all subjective events.
Everywhere elae it is: if a player does XXXXX the referee shall award a YYYYY
Problem is, at P/L & S/L a lot or refs are overwhelmed by the intensity and pace of the games, not to mention some players’ reputations…
Lawbook Page 37:
An indirect free kick shall also be awarded to the opposing team from
the place where the infringement occurred, if, in the opinion of the
referee, a player:
• plays in a dangerous manner
• deliberately obstructs an opponent
• prevents the goalkeeper from throwing the ball with his hands
• commits any other infringement not previously mentioned in
Law 11 for which play is stopped to caution or dismiss a player
Guess Talkin’ Futsal doesn’t really know what he/she is talking about. LOL
@red card. I believe that they are taken more seriously when the club official sends his/her feedback to NSW Futsal Referees Association. Consistent poor reports will result in a referee being watched by assessors.
James, you are actually repeating what i am saying: “in the refs opinion” in the rule book only applies to those circumstances, it does not appear in any other law! so for toei to say that it is all “in the refs opinion” it is not quite correct…
Let’s face it, coaching and refereeing in this country at the present time are, in general, holding back the development of the sport!
@ Talkin’ Futsal:
Lawbook page 22:
“The decisions of the referee regarding facts connected with play, including whether or not a goal is scored and the result of the match, are ?nal. ”
That would suggest that interpretation of the Laws are down to the opinion of the referees.
Continual ref bashing is just plain silly. There are great refs, there are average refs and there are rubbish refs. Just like every aspect of the sport.
When was the last time you saw a referee jump on a public forum and bag the performance of a player? When was the last time you saw a team or coach go through a match without making mistakes?
And LOL @ coaching and refereeing holding back the development of the sport!
I would suggest that things such as clubs choosing an extra age group of girls that no one can find enough players for instead of playing stop-clock in the open men’s competition of the NSWPL is much more of an issue than any coach or referee…
I reckon all you people who are on the website abusing the referees and picking out mistakes that they make should get out there and do 5 pfl/sfl matches in a row and tell me u wont make 1 mistake. the referees are only human and deserve respect just like the players so until that happens the sport is always going to have trouble. clean up your act the lot of you.
Have seen 2 players within the same number of months get redcarded.
One was a case where the ref carded the wrong person. The other was where the ref handed out a red on the word of another player.
I have also never in 5yrs seen the same ref do more than 2 games in a row.
Yes refs are human and deserve respect, but the players and clubs also deserve to have decent refs who know how to think for themselves and do the right thing.
i have no part in this argument but on the weekend ‘yeswell’ i witnessed the same refs from 12 boys to 14 girls. however the pace of the game is much slower than even 16s so that could be a reason.
just putting it out there that more than 2 games in a row does happen
I think that the people who get on here under aliases whinging about referees need to wake up to themselves.
If some of these people are coaches it says a lot about the game generally. I’ve seen many more errors made in every game by players or coaches than I’ve seen from referees. The refs seem an easy scapegoat for the bruised egos of some who can’t accept defeat.
I am a coach but this is only my third season of futsal. I’ve been involved with outdoor for around 17 years. One thing I’ve never been guilty of, no matter what level I’ve coached at, is abusing referees. Can’t see any point in it, don’t see it as setting the righte example for my players and I’m not perfect myself.
Try playing without the referees and see how you like your precious games???
When has any call NOT been “in the opinion of the referee”.
I can tell you the rule book doesn’t come close to describing all the variables that can happen in a game of Futsal.
And finally, if a ref makes a great call how often do you hear or read about them?? Ah is just way easier to complain.
At the risk of being too highbrow, I’m reminded of a quote by Abraham Lincoln:
“He has a right to criticize, who has a heart to help.”
What i’m seeing here is a bunch of armchair generals who want to whinge and moan and yet don’t have the stones to step up and make a constructive, positive contribution.
If these referees are as poor as you say, how about you put a whistle in your hand, step up and do better? Perhaps then you might have a fresh perspective and a shred of credibility to back it up.
Quinn, I bet you are also one of the ones who whinges and moans about the politicians or the heirachy at FNSW.
People have a right to whinge and disagree, it is human nature.
People have a right to whinge and disagree but please tell us who you are.
@yeswell: Ante up! I’ll take that bet… easiest money I’ll have ever made. You couldn’t me more wrong if you were a bearded beast named Bob wearing fishnets and a leather skirt on a corner in the Cross. You’re confusing ‘right’, ‘responsibility’ and ‘privilege’, as do most people conditioned by pop culture nowadays. This is, however, a philosophical debate that distracts from the discussion at hand.
ok folks, you don’t like the situation… step up and fix it. Lack of action is akin to tacit endorsement.
As the saying goes, be part of the solution, not part of the problem. To quote Gandhi “Be the change you want to see in the world”.
I was dissatisfied with the poor refereeing that my team and I had to endure week by week… So when comp organiser turned around and said “Do the refs course and do something about it” that’s exactly what I did.
I saw coaches behaving abhorrantly on sidelines, the conduct of charges on court reflecting that in their constant foul play, backed up by complaint that the referee was doing EXACTLY what the Laws of the Game require. So I did my coaching certification and showed that you can get enjoyment, quality, results and a positive experience all without being a dictatorial monster.
6 years refereeing and 5 National Championships later, any time I’ve been disappointed with some aspect of the sport, I try to take constructive action rather than sit around complaining. What I find most frustrating is a bunch of so-called experts, many with their own agenda, sitting on the sideline panning the efforts of those trying to make positive changes and contributions.
At best, that’s hypocrisy; at worst, it will continue the divisive and insular mentality that prevents this sport from booming in this country.
So, I ask this, what’s the point in complaining (especially without constructive contribution) if all it does is irritate others making an effort to contribute?
The quality of the sport requires diligence in three areas: players/coaches, officials and the organisation/governing body. Deficiency in any area affects the whole. Lack of respect and support for any one of these affects the whole. As teams that cooperate on the pitch succeed, so too must all of us involved with this great sport if it’s to flourish. The constant bickering, sniping, backbiting and cult of personalities portrayed in various comments on this site is proof enough that this sport doesn’t deserve to be any bigger than it’s present size.
@mseeto: what difference does it make for me to disclose who I am? Will who I am detract or add anything to what I’m saying here? If the message is valid and the action sound, what should it matter who is the source?
I do referee as well mseeto and I’m good at that too! This country just like what “Fence Sitter” said is so far behind from the rest of the world in refereeing standards that its amazing. I’ve only ever seen probably 6 state league referee’s which I could say did a very good job and picked up the stuff which should get picked up called. The good thing is that I saw an inspector at my game last weekend and if he shared the same opinion as everyone else at the venue I played at then those 2 referee’s hopefully wont be doing to many more games at this level. And it wasn’t just one game that was ruined. I have seen the same thing by the same one’s for years!
Good contribution Quinn. I’m very disappointed with some of the sideline antics I see. There are coaches around who set a very, very poor example for their players.
People may be within their rights to complain but it all seems a little hollow to me when they can only do so whilst hiding their identity behind an alias.
You want to complain? Step up and have the strength of your convictions then. It might be that a few of the whingers are the poor examples the game needs to get rid of.
Why would showing my real alias change the fact that I think poorly of some of the referee’s in state league? Not all but most of them. After all though I understand you cant just go out there and find referee’s which are good, because at the end of the day it’s who wants to be bothered doing it. My opinions I still want to express though.
Just as you judge others, putting your real name to your comments, allow others to judge you.
@Ross: thanks, just trying to foster some constructive discourse and inject some objectivity.
@ronaldo9: what would you suggest be done to improve the quality and quantity of officials available to referee?
Remembering that the sport is still an amateur sport in Australia, it means that if you want improvement you either have to engage in some activity that fosters that improvement or pay someone to do so.
What are the motivators for our referees at present? It’s certainly not financial, as generally speaking, you’ll earn more working at 7-Eleven, Blockbuster or MacDonalds. It can’t be for fame or celebrity, since the majority of the general population would be hard pressed to name a Socceroo other than Harry Kewell, much less a Futsalroo or a referee.
So, with all the complaints and criticisms, what would everyone suggest be done to improve the performance of the referees? ESPECIALLY when you consider the overwhelming support being expressed here from the vocal elements of the futsal community
As is the case with politics, a people get the government they deserve. If noone is prepared to foster a culture of support and improvement in all aspects of the sport, then expectations of quality are unrealistic to say the least.
I think they need to watch a game of football on TV and learn what a foul is, i’m not asking for professional refereeing, they turn up in the right gear and looking the part I cant complain about that, but when you get referee’s that dont know what a foul is it makes you think. Obviously they can’t get everything right but I expect last man tackles and keepers sliding outside there box with 1 on 1’s (just a few basic things) to be picked up.
@ seeto boy whats your obsession with wanting to know people’s alias? Have I judged an individual yet? Nahh don’t think so!
@ Quinn
“Remembering that the sport is still an amateur sport in Australia, it means that if you want improvement you either have to engage in some activity that fosters that improvement or pay someone to do so”
Last time I checked the referees were being financially recompesed for thier efforts… They are, arguably, the only ones getting some decent money out of the sport!
@ronaldo9
Last time I checked, our referees at international level go further than any of our players or coaches – and have done so for years.
It’s like anything, compare the players at a level with the officials at the same level. You’ll usually find like for like or pretty close.
I’d love to be able to give the refs one weekend of immunity where they can sledge us for each error we make instead of us doing it to them. I know who’d get the most talk time.
@ Divine
“Last time I checked” I was getting paid to play, I do remember the referee’s getting paid to do a job though! A job which in my opinion they can be doing a much better job. Not all of them but the majority of them. There are some good ones out there! You got no idea Divine, Referee’s representing Australia at international are probably that small percentage which have an idea of what the rules are.
**I wasn’t**
@Talkin’ Futsal: I dare say there would be radically different ideas of what “decent money” for being subjected to the tirades of abuse, criticism and complaint that we get when we do the job properly…
National Championships, the pinnacle of the sport in Australia… we had referees from as far and wide as Perth fly into Canberra, more often than not at their own expense, for our elite level competition where I was paid less money per day than I make professionally per hour. I know I’m not alone in that regard, and I imagine our current FIFA referees’ experience greater demands and even more clashes between work commitments and international duties.
I was told that Vikings Nationals was a case of ‘whoever they could get’ and I recently heard case of a Queensland referee being asked to drive to Albury-Wodonga for their recent National Schools tournament.
So, tell us, how can either camps attract and retain refereeing talent when there is little to no respect, limited support and the remuneration doesn’t justify the demands and grief?
I bet it costs the players, coaches , managers and dare I say parents a whole lot more than the refs to be at the Nationals…
@Fence Sitter and ronaldo9
If the money is such a good thing and the current referees so bad, why not pick up a whistle and show the refs how it’s supposed to be done. No backbone, just want to complain.
Quinn and RA, you’re on the money.
@ For the love of the game
Engage the brain before you put the mouth into gear: I was refereeing, at National League level, before you knew wat the word Futsal meant; has it ocurred to you that I may be contributing to the sport in some other way than refereeing?
By the way I would be very happy to have a peek at your ref’s certificate…
People posting under aliases hide their alliances, their alliegances and, possibly, their past misdemeanours. It’s only right that we’re allowed to know what “colours” your opinion if you’re going to give it.
I wonder how some coaches and players would respond if they copped the same amount of sledging and criticism as the referees? If a referee yelled at a player/coach every time they made a mistake all we’d hear during a match would be the referees voice. Aren’t some futsal players/coaches being “paid” anyway? Don’t gift cards, petrol cards, whatever add up to payment? I remember attending a meeting at FNSW last year where these issues were raised and delegates were promised they’d be looked into. Have they been?
Anyway, back to the referees; the ones I’ve seen in action at futsal generally do a good job. I haven’t had a match that my team has participated in decided by anyone other than the players on the field. Those who attempt to intimidate from the sideline need to get some quailty counselling.
@ Fence Sitter
bwahahahahahaha
All can tell you’re not refereeing. It appears you’re “contributing to the sport” by not refereeing. It appears you’re not missed.
In response to FenceSitter’s comments above, I had thought to highlight the differences in the Nationals experience between ‘competing’ and ‘officiating’… that quantity of involvement is not necessarily related to quality…but one thing became painfully apparent as I did…
Those who constantly criticize don’t want to engage in productive dialogue. No matter how objective, neutral or patient any of us may be… there is nothing that can be said, written or done to change the views held by those who just want to point fingers and blame others for what they see as failings. Safe in the detached anonymity of the internet, they will sledge, insult and demean others, free from consequence of their words and actions.
The reality is that despite this false sense of security, there is a very real consequence to the words written here: the conflict only serves to deride and discourage those making valuable contributions, and repel those outside the sport who may otherwise seek to become involved and contribute to it’s growth and development.
Twice now I’ve asked for practical input, for suggestions on how to improve the situation.
Twice now the question has been dodged, with attempts to deflect attention away by pointing fingers, making more criticisms and reducing the discussion to mudslinging.
You want things to change, but in the absence of action to improve the situation, you can’t even come up with suggestions or productive ways to improve. It’s petulance that befits spoilt children lacking any semblance of maturity.
FFS, people… lose the attitude, embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet… whatever the hell it takes to get over yourselves and put this divisiveness away so we can do something constructive for the good of the sport.
So, at this point I do the only thing I can… I walk away from this discussion.
Because the petty bickering only serves to diminish the value and tarnish the image of this sport we all love.
@ronaldo9: missed your post above, so my apologies for the comment on nobody contributing.
However, in reference to your ’suggestion’ about watching a game of football on TV for foul recognition…
Interesting, but ultimately fruitless since football referees tend to allow a lot more happen than we’re taught as futsal referees. Your suggestion would do more to contribute to problems than it would to address them.
Without seeing the events you’ve cited, and understanding their context, it’s impossible to comment accurately.
OK Quinn, how about the refs working harder on their fitness so they can get into better positions to make the right call, how about trying to get some consistency on the enforcing of the Laws of the Game, how about some training on people management skills, how about a change in attitude so they don’t assume they know it all and that the players, coaches and spectators are totally bereft of knowledge of the rules. Is that enough suggestions for starters…
And yes, let’s get the coaches and players up to speed in the LOTG so they do not argue when they are wrong.
@ for the love of the game,
You obviously can’t read! look at my first comment. If I were to do state league I would be one of the best referee’s in it, but why ref when I can play?
I respect what your saying Quinn you got a point, Fence sitter I think the referees improving there fitness is the least of there worries…i think some of them improving there eye sight and knowledge for what a foul is might do the trick though!
Hypothetical.
2 players go for the ball. It goes out, the ref blows the whistle, they both turn to walk away and one trips over the others foot as the player stumbles. The ref is not doing anything, but the playefs who trips over the other ones foot says ”hey ref that’s a red card.’
So the ref issues player 2 with a red card.
To some it is a wrong call, to others it is just a tough luck. Take the penalty and get on with it.
Come back Quinn. You are spot on. I don’t think Ronaldo9 has ever refereed in his life.
@ ronaldo
OMG, read your own post 9 Oct at 8.27am. You say you were reffing at National Level (in your dreams) and that you were now contributing in other ways, YOUR words. I simply stated the obvious that you couldn’t have been very good and this just proved it. You Fail!! Just because you think it is a foul, it has to be the referees opinion and thank goodness they are impartial.
@ Paul, I fully agree.
@ Quinn, you don’t hop on here often enough.
@ Fence Sitter, you are obviously only involved in Super league, and lower teams at that, based on your comments. It’s no wonder with you blaming others for your non performance. You should take a leaf out of Ross Anderson’s book.
@ for the love of the game
Two points re your comment:
* Intrinsically disparaging to ALL Super League clubs, your elitist bafoon
* You have NO IDEA… don’t just ASSUME: you make and ASS of U and ME!
@ Fence Sitter
read your comments October 9th, 2009 6:03 pm. I am not the baffoon (spelt correctly). It’s alright to ‘dump’ all referees into the same ‘unfit’ category but I dare comment on your ridiculous post and I’m elitist. Have a good look in the mirror.
@ For the love of the game
Your an idiot, you wouldn’t know if i’m good or not! You got no idea mate!
It’s spelt you’re, not your, idiot.
@ FTLOTG saying that MOST refs are not fit enought to keep up with the game is not elitist, it is a fact!
Bad positioning leads to bad decisions.